Understanding Dual Booting in Vista

Discussion in 'General Technical' started by Jason, Mar 5, 2006.

  1. Jason

    Jason

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    Note: To be able to Dual Boot both Vista and a Legacy OS, you must install Vista from within that legacy OS and not boot from the DVD at startup. This will force vista to recognize your Legacy OS, otherwise it will go unnoticed and you will not be able to dual boot!

    Up until VISTA build 5231 we have had the new VISTA LOADER and for XP, 2000, 2003
    and Win 98 the all known NTLDR called NT Loader or NT Bootloader and the mirror
    of that is BOOT.INI...


    In VISTA 5259 we have a new hierarchy and setup:

    First loader: VISTA loader called bootmgr, a "BOOTMANAGER"
    Second Loader: NTLDR (XP,2003,98...)


    VISTA looks in its "DATA STORE", were the new entries will be hold.
    In the beta state of VISTA we have only two programs, which can help us:


    MSCONFIG (which does not see the legacy OS)
    BCDEDIT.EXE


    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Using BCDEDIT.EXE

    To run bcdedit you must run it from windows dos prompt, Please press START and RUN, and if you havnt already put the "run" command on your start menu right-click Taskbar, Properties, Start Menu, Start Menu Customize, check Run command, and now it will appear. Now that its there, you need to right click on the "run" button and hit "Run as admininstrator" and type in: command and press OK.

    Then type BCDEDIT & Hit "enter"
    It will then run and spit out a bunch of data on the screen:

    Microsoft® Windows DOS
    ©Copyright Microsoft Corp 1990-2001.


    D:\USERS\ADMINI~1>bcdedit

    Windows Boot Manager
    --------------------
    Identifier: {bootmgr}
    Type: 10100002
    Device: partition=C:
    Description: Windows Boot Manager
    Locale: ENG-US
    Inherit options: {emssettings}
    {dbgsettings}
    Default: {871d699a-68d1-11da-9f30-eb66f9279051}
    Display order: {legacy}
    {871d699a-68d1-11da-9f30-eb66f9279051}
    {d3e15d7c-66fb-11da-83c4-f23116dca051}
    {77e994d8-64b9-11da-afd6-cd1e42667751}
    {748c9ce4-6497-11da-b587-ba41a6a3f856}
    {6bde53aa-630a-11da-b591-bb4bd04c9f19}
    {d9b222a6-5f5b-11da-8e9c-87c5457d571e}
    {eafe9a2c-558c-11da-86bb-9237c2e1a919}
    {3ffee100-4b31-11da-b300-e812ef50ad19}
    {eda3906c-438e-11da-b934-f4ecbe0a3419}
    {4f964faa-3d7a-11da-bb88-b7df6f4d4219}
    Timeout: 3


    Windows Legacy OS Loader
    ------------------------
    Identifier: {legacy}
    Type: 10300006
    Device: partition=C:
    Path: tldr
    Description: Legacy (pre-Longhorn) Microsoft Windows Operating System



    Windows Boot Loader
    -------------------
    Identifier: {871d699a-68d1-11da-9f30-eb66f9279051}
    Type: 10200003
    Device: partition=H:
    Path: \Windows\system32\winload.exe
    Description: Microsoft Windows
    Locale: en-US
    Inherit options: {emssettings}
    {dbgsettings}
    {5189b25c-5558-4bf2-bca4-289b11bd29e2}
    Windows device: partition=H:
    Windows root: \Windows
    No Execute policy: OptIn


    Windows Boot Loader
    -------------------
    Identifier: {d3e15d7c-66fb-11da-83c4-f23116dca051}
    Type: 10200003
    Device: partition=H:
    Path: \Windows\system32\winload.exe
    Description: Microsoft Windows
    Locale: en-US
    Inherit options: {emssettings}
    {dbgsettings}
    {5189b25c-5558-4bf2-bca4-289b11bd29e2}
    Windows device: partition=H:
    Windows root: \Windows
    No Execute policy: OptIn


    Windows Boot Loader
    -------------------
    Identifier: {77e994d8-64b9-11da-afd6-cd1e42667751}
    Type: 10200003
    Device: partition=H:
    Path: \Windows\system32\winload.exe
    Description: Microsoft Windows
    Locale: en-US
    Inherit options: {emssettings}
    {dbgsettings}
    {5189b25c-5558-4bf2-bca4-289b11bd29e2}
    Windows device: partition=H:
     
    Jason, Mar 5, 2006
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  2. Jason

    Synapse

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    Nice tut.

    Is there any way to bypass the vista loader, and only have the 2nd, NTLOADER load the OS choices?
     
    Synapse, Mar 7, 2006
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  3. Jason

    Jason

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    No, you cant us the NTloader since it wont be able to boot vista. Ony the vista loader can. Kinda wierd but its a step in the right direction it allows vista to load on both Bios and EFI based computers.
     
    Jason, Mar 7, 2006
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  4. Jason

    _Venom_

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    Something I believe is a pretty good idea, I've heard that eventually Windows Vista will also run on macs.
     
    _Venom_, Mar 7, 2006
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  5. Jason

    Jason

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    I've heard that as well.
     
    Jason, Mar 9, 2006
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  6. Jason

    F34R

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    Ok, I have another problem. I'm unable to load 5308 on my SATA hard drive, for whatever reason. So, the entire vista partition has been wiped. Now, I still have the vista loader showing up when i restart my computer. I've delted the files in C: that Synapse explained to me, but I still have the loader at startup.



    Any suggestions ?
     
    F34R, Mar 25, 2006
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  7. Jason

    Jason

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    The first 512kb of the driver are reserved for the vista loader. The only way to overwrite it is to put in like an XP or Windows ME etc.. cd in and use the OS's recovery console to write a new boot loader or reinstall that OS on that partition. The Vista Loader is for good even after you uninstall the OS, you must install a legacy os to overwrite it. Hope that helps.
     
    Jason, Mar 25, 2006
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  8. Jason

    F34R

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    Thanks Jason. That clears that up lol. I wonder what's going to happen for people with SATA drives. I've seen, in other forums, that people have it running on a SATA drive but it lags along. I think I found an IDE drive that still works lol. I'm about to try and piece together a box to test vista with lol. I think I MIGHT have enough power to handle it, we'll see.



    Thanks for the reply. I'll look into my options on this.
     
    F34R, Mar 26, 2006
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  9. Jason

    RE*S.T.A.R.S*2

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    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD class=smalltxt vAlign=top><SPAN id=_ctl1__ctl0_ctlTopic__ctl0_ctlPanelBar_ctlTopicsRepeater__ctl1_lblFullMessage>Note: To be able to Dual Boot both Vista and a Legacy OS, you must install Vista from within that legacy OS and not boot from the DVD at startup. This will force vista to recognize your Legacy OS, otherwise it will go unnoticed and you will not be able to dual boot!</SPAN></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

    Hi there!

    Well i decide to test the latest beta and installed from windows xp pro, for some reason that are out of my skills! Vista loader din`t detect my windows xp pro, and i tryed to use bcdedit but i came out saying that it cannot read the imformation or something else.

    that in mind that i did from windows vista, i`m really lost on this couse i cant boot my windows xp pro.before entering to to windows there are 3 options 1 legasy system

    2.windows

    3.windows

    when i try legasy system it goes to an error saying it couldn`t load ntloader or something like that.

    if you can help me please let me know, i know how to recover xp but i cant dual boot the system, previus builts worked but this one acts difrent. to recover XP boot just type in fixboot command and you recover it from it.

    thank you.:p
     
    RE*S.T.A.R.S*2, Apr 5, 2006
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  10. Jason

    Jason

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    Same thing happened to me. What you have to do is put in your xp cd and go to "repair" your xp install, it will write a new bootloader. Then you will need to install vista again after xp is repaired. If you sintalled vista from within xp I dont know why it didnt show up in the boot menu.
     
    Jason, Apr 5, 2006
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  11. Jason

    RE*S.T.A.R.S*2

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    Than you i know i can recover xp with the installation cd, but i want to be able to have dual boot, VISTA AND XP. Its there a way to edit something make the boot loader to detect my XP OS, and as to why BCDEDIT saids that it cant read the imformation?

    Man this weird previous builds dint had this problems at all, now if i want to boot VISTA after fixing MY XP OS, i can just pop the cd and use the recover consola that the windows VISTA has. but i dont want too, i want a dual anyone have some clues, please help here. thank you
     
    RE*S.T.A.R.S*2, Apr 5, 2006
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  12. Jason

    Synapse

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    I installed Vista 5308 through booting the DVD using the bios, not from within Windows. The whole detection thing is a Myth.
     
    Synapse, Apr 6, 2006
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  13. Jason

    Jason

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    I know what you mean, but what happened was vista overwrote your xp bootloader so you will never be able to load xp unless you repair the install from the cd. You cannot edit bcdedit to make it recognize the install if the bootloader is now gone. If its saying "ntldr is missing" then its pointing to the correct OS and it knows where it is and that it exists, but the boot loader for xp is gone or has been over written, ntldr is the bootloader. Hope that heps
     
    Jason, Apr 6, 2006
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  14. Jason

    bhanja_trinanjan

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    How should I proceed if I want the following 4 OSes?



    1. Win XP

    2. Win XP 64

    3. Vista

    4. Ubuntu 6.06



    Will this installation order work?

    XP then XP64 then vista and finally Ubuntu?

    Will multiboot work and will GRUB recognize the vista loader?
     
    bhanja_trinanjan, Jun 9, 2006
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  15. Jason

    Jason

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    Just install them in that order and you should be ok. I found an exert from a page on google about booting Ubuntu and Vista.



    "Vista will overwrite grub though, so that will need to be re-installed. You should make a ubuntu boot disk, and then when you upgrade vista, you can boot into ubuntu, and use grub-install (or some other method, ie, grub shell) to install grub back to the MBR."



    From there you should follow the directions on this site about editing bcdedit or the other method of right clicking on "my computer" and going to startup/recovery options. You may not need to do this it depends on if Vista detects your legacy OS's and adds them to the bootloader automaticlly.



    The quadruple boot could get complicated tho, I dont know if anyone has done it yet.
     
    Jason, Jun 9, 2006
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  16. Jason

    HerrtheGeek

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    Check out the new User Friendly BCEDIT GUI program as a free download from PROnetworks.

    http://www.pro-networks.org/vistabootpro/intro.php

    Note: This made myTri Boot (Windows Server 2003, Windows XP, Windows Vista), go very smoothly. I have not worked up enough nerve to try to add my Fedora Core (Linux) Load into the mix but will keep you updated if I do.
     
    HerrtheGeek, Jun 11, 2006
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  17. Jason

    mashaq

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    Ok,I have a similar issue with booting and kinda understand what i did wrong but not sure of the best way to resolve.

    I had a pc with xp pro 32 on c drive primary partition, then installed xp pro 64 on a second partition and also suse 10.1 on additional partitions. Everything was hunky dory but as xp64 and suse were doing great and vista was just out and free to download beta 2, me thinks i'll just install it over the xp32 and have vista, xp64 and suse.

    Now the install for vista took ages but it did finish.However it replaced my suse bootloader and only left me with the option to load into vista. Basically in my haste to install vista, i overlooked the fact that i would be overwriting the ntldr on the c drive of my xp32 installation which booted my xp64 also with the new vista bcd.

    Using bcdedit I have managed to add entries for the "legacy" windows and point it to the correct drive (D:) where the xp64 is installed, have also created a boot.ini file on the root of this drive telling the system that XP is on the second partition of this drive.

    However, I get the message that "NTLDR" is missing when i chose this option from the vista menu. It seems that Iwill be able to get the xp64 to load if I can restore the ntldr on the 2nd partition but I am not too sure how to do this, so would also appreciate suggestions.Have heard and downloaded a file called fixntldr.exe but not sure exactly how to use it, i do not have the option to boot from floppy.

    Also, I am aware that the ntldr &amp; boot.ini combocannot load vista but is it possible to load "legacy" windows without the ntldr and boot.ini files using just bcd, i.e. can I add some settings into bcd and get it and vista's loader (\Windows\system32\winload.exe)to load "legacy" windows without having to restore ntldr and boot.ini?

    As for SUSE, well I am quite new to linux and it isn't as vital as the xp64 pro at the moment, but any suggestions on that would also e welcome.

    Thanks in advance.
     
    mashaq, Jun 19, 2006
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  18. Jason

    Jason

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    The way it works is that BCDedit still points to nyldt and boot.ini to run legacy OS's but it uses the bcdedit interface when it first boots up. You can try putting in your xp cd and going into the recovery console,(don't press "R", that means repair) and copying the ntldr from your cd..Follow these steps:



    1. Insert the Windows XP bootable CD into the computer.

    2. When prompted to press any key to boot from the CD, press any key.

    3. Once in the Windows XP setup menu press the "R" key to repair Windows.

    4. Log into your Windows installation by pressing the "1" key and pressing enter.

    5. You will then be prompted for your administrator password, enter that password.

    6. Copy the below two files to the root directory of the primary hard disk. In the below example we are copying these files from the CD-ROM drive letter "E". This letter may be different on your computer.



    copy e:\i386tldr c:\

    copy e:\i386tdetect.com c:\



    7. Once both of these files have been successfully copied, remove the CD from the computer and reboot.



    If that doesnt work you can try other things in the recovery console such as Fixboot and bootcfg, just type "Help" and run whatever you can which involves the boot.



    Obviously change the drive letters to whatever you are using. If that doesnt work, then its the same problem I had, you are going to want to go ahead and repair the xp x64 by using the cd and going to the repair option, this restores all the the orignal setting os the xp pro x64 install, and retains all your settings/files/programs. This will get xp pro x64 running again, then when you want to install vista, boot up xp pro x64, and while in xp pro x64 insert the vista cd and install it that way. Sometimes when booting from the cd and not from within xp it doesnt recognize other installations.
     
    Jason, Jun 20, 2006
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  19. Jason

    Tom

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    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt">With Windows XP Pro on my system, I partitioned my primary drive into two drives using Partition Magic and installed Vista Beta 2 onto the new (drive D). After successful installation of Vista I tried to use the dual boot to go into XP ("Windows Legacy") but got the nasty "cannot find /ntldr" message. :cool:<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Using my Win XP boot disk I fixed the missing ntldr problem (using recovery console and the "Fixboot" option), but in gaining XP back, I lost the entire dual boot capability, thus I lost access to Vista.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I have a second physical HD on my computer, so I removed the old Vista installation and re-installed Vista to the separate drive (Drive G on my computer), but I still ended up with the very same "missing ntldr" problem. I tried other variations (such as starting the Vista install from XP; starting off of the Vista boot disk, etc…but I end up with the same problem every time!<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt">Can anyone help me?
     
    Tom, Jun 20, 2006
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  20. Jason

    niffer022

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    if your now using 2 harddrives... you can used the program thats attached. i used 2 harddrives main one with xp on and secondry one vista....

    iv used this method for a while now and it has not once let me down.......

    any more questions feel free to ask.

    nathan :)
     
    niffer022, Jun 20, 2006
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