Windows Vista Forum / Installation & Compatibility / Vista Technical / Vista on two PCs / Latest Posts

RE: Vista on two PCs

MrMagic — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 11:14:39 GMT

Agreed, but my point is that if they can't sell it in WALMART on a CHEAP $400.00 pc, when and how is ANYBODY going to sell it. The majors try from time to time and then always withdraw. The things just don't sell.

RE: Vista on two PCs

WAW8 — Thu, 13 Mar 2008 08:52:53 GMT

MrMagic:

While this release may seem disheartening, consider the "market" that WalMart serves -- the folks that want $50 DVD players and $200 PCs. At the same time, Dell is selling all the Linux boxes they can make -- but these aren't $200 machines. So, maybe the market for ultra-cheap PCs is not there (no surprise to me!)

Two other things that may not be apparent are:
1) They sold all the machines in inventory in the stores
2) They are still selling the Linux boxes on their online site

So, all they've really decided to do is not restock the stores.

They also (or so I read) picked Freespire for their Disto -- certainly not the most well-known. They could have picked either of two other more windows-like distros (PCLinuxOS or Linux Mint), but they didn't. So, I don't know to what degree that affected customer satisfaction with the product.

But ... yeah ... GNU/Linux is still very much a power user solution, even today.

RE: Vista on two PCs

MrMagic — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 12:55:17 GMT

This I'm afraid is STILL the indicator of the future of Linux on the average user desktop.

http://www.informationweek.com/hardware/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=206902951&subSection=Processors#community

Steve

RE: Vista on two PCs

MrMagic — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 11:48:29 GMT

Well, on most points I couldn't disagree with you, 10 years is a long time, yet not so long. The problem that is stifling the Linux world is that there are so many different distros and little standardization. A BIG problem that I still see, and I'm running SuSe right now on one of my machines is that 'package' loading is so different from distro to distro that MUCH of the time it takes an admin to figure out how to unpack and install the application the user is trying run. Red Hat doesn't do it the way SuSe does it who doesn't do it the way Ubuntu does and so on. One-Click install of the OS is one thing, installing needed applications is quite another.

The very thing that Linux must achieve to effectively compete with MS is the most problematic of all and that is a 'universal package installer' that will install the given product on ANY flavor of Unix without jumping through hoops with 472 decisisons to make to do it.

You buy a WIndows App and the installer is a known quantity and it just 'works', most of the time. This doesn't occurr in the Linux world yet and until it does, it wil never be able to compete. The Linux world is still much too splintered to bring this together in any reasonably short time frame.

I'm talking about average desktop users here, not techies and yes, you are 100% correct, today's GUI's are orders of magnitude better than they just a few years back, BUT just a GUI does not a competitor make. Its ALL the things rolled up in a ball that make it work and so far, NOBODY has EVER done it better that MS.

Steve

RE: Vista on two PCs

WAW8 — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 14:13:46 GMT

MrMagic:

Not to argue with you, but never? I don't know ...

This latest round of very high prices and machines being crippled by false positives on WGA has really ticked off LOTS of folks. I'm surrounded, literally, by over a thousand folks on my program, all of which have two PC's at their desk, and the number of people that have Vista (other than me), I can count on one hand with fingers left over.

Maybe my memory is bad, but I don't recall such a strong groundswell of opposition when XP came out. Also, back then, the only way to do anything in Linux was the command line. So, it was basically millions of PCs against thousands (?) of Macs, and hundreds (?) of Linux machines.

Years later, the most popular Linux distro is working hard to replicate the one-click installation and setup process that we all know in Windows. Will this unseat MS in the next couple of years -- no way! In five years, probably not. In ten years -- well, maybe.

One of the keystones in such a displacement will be the degree to which Linux-based office apps will be able to import, modify, and export MS-compliant files. Most people I know got a machine at home so they could work on their Word documents, Excel spreadsheets, and PowerPoint presentations -- without having to come into work. When they will be able to do that with a linux box, then, we may see some solid losses on the MS front.

Another change in the last few years is the prevalence of web-based computing. When I started out on PCs (and my career predates them by decades), there were a handful of apps, and all of them were what we would refer to as client-based. Now, increasingly more of folks' time is spent on the web, even doing applications work. When that work can be done using Safari (on a Mac) or using Konqueror (on Linux), the need for Windows to run its own apps starts to fade.

I would hope that, in 10, years, we'll see a computing market more balanced with Apple and Linux both having a much bigger share than today.

But then, you may be proven right -- it may "never" happen.

RE: Vista on two PCs

MrMagic — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 11:40:33 GMT

[quote][b]lacla (2/29/2008)[/b][hr]Yes, they have really cornered the market well. But this activation licensing thing might just be pushing it a little too far. They could seriosly lose market share on that account, I believe - especially as Linux distributions become more and more user friendly and regular computer users start experimenting with it, instead of hard core enthusiasts. I for one, will seriously consider running linux on my media center because of this whole licensing thing and because there is no need for a full-blown OS anyway, as long as it can run media center type application.

I was actually lead on to Ubuntu by your signature (I heard about it before, but didn't bother to investigate it further), and I will definately take a closer look at it now.

Thanks for the discussion.[/quote]

Its never going to happen, Linux becoming a major player that is. I've been loading and unloading Linux since Slackware V 1.0 and everytime I load a new distro of anything, I remember why I UNLOADED it the last time.

The major thing that MS has going for is that you don't have to fool around with downloading this & that, like an add-on that emulates Media Center, device drivers and on and on. With MS you can install right out of the box 95% better of the time and it works without having to go hunt down a myriad of add-ons. Until somebody can compete on THIS level, MS will maintain its dominance forever. Just my 2 cents worth.

Steve

RE: Vista on two PCs

WAW8 — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 15:52:33 GMT

If you're going to experiment with GNU/Linux, let me make a few suggestions ...

Ubuntu 7.10 (Gutsy Gibbon) is available through the distros right now and is a good choice (it's the one I use ) But V8.04 (Hardy Heron) is already into Alpha 5 and coming along nicely. I've been testing it and am really impressed by its capabilities. Stuff that I had to hack and customize to get working in 7.10 simply works "out of the box" in 8.04. The Beta release is due in a couple of weeks. If you download and use the LiveCD (sometimes referred to as the Desktop CD), that will allow you to try it out without installing it.

Also, look into MythTV. This is the open source version of Media Center. I'm not saying it provides everything that MCE does, but it may give you the stuff you need.

Good Luck

RE: Vista on two PCs

lacla — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 15:46:21 GMT

Yes, they have really cornered the market well. But this activation licensing thing might just be pushing it a little too far. They could seriosly lose market share on that account, I believe - especially as Linux distributions become more and more user friendly and regular computer users start experimenting with it, instead of hard core enthusiasts. I for one, will seriously consider running linux on my media center because of this whole licensing thing and because there is no need for a full-blown OS anyway, as long as it can run media center type application.

I was actually lead on to Ubuntu by your signature (I heard about it before, but didn't bother to investigate it further), and I will definately take a closer look at it now.

Thanks for the discussion.

RE: Vista on two PCs

WAW8 — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 13:13:34 GMT

MS is for technology alright, but they've become so huge that they've taken on the mindset of a monopoly. To show you what I mean, back in the "old" days, you get any color phone you wanted (as long as it was black), any style you wanted (as long as it was rotary dial) and any phone company you wanted -- as long as it was "Ma" Bell. Today, you get lots of choices, many of them as good or better than the BOC's, with market pressures driving both price and features.

Until we get someone else in the market that can effectively challenge MS, they will most probably continue to operate like a monopoly -- charge whatever price they want, provide whatever features they want, and go out of their way to destroy any competition.

And, unfortunately, the few percentage points of the market that go to Apple and GNU/Linux combined aren't enough to even make MS nervous. So, we'll limp along with whatever they sell us until Windows Seven comes out in 2010, and then we'll start this game all over agin.

RE: Vista on two PCs

lacla — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:17:11 GMT

You're right, and I know that's how the MS licensing works, and there's probably no way to get around it legally.

I just don't understand their licensing policy. Do they really expect users to buy copies for every computer in the home? With the prices they ask for Vista, I don't think that will be an option for many (which the sales statistics for Vista show very clearly, btw). They aggravate their users and limit the number of computers in every home - and I though MS was FOR technology... Talk about exploiting your monopoly.

RE: Vista on two PCs

WAW8 — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 20:48:50 GMT

Your feelings toward MS aside, your purchase entitles you to run one copy on one machine -- period.

To reuse your analogy, you can play that DVD you "bought" in any machine you want -- but it can only exist in one machine at a time. Same is true of licensed software -- you only have the "right" to use it on one machine at a time. If you uninstall it off one machine and install it on a second machine, while you may have to contact MS to get it reactivated on the second machine, since it then only exist on the second machine, they will agree to it.

Furthermore, if you think that by buying a DVD, or a CD, you then have the right to make copies of it and use that elsewhere, well ... you haven't been keeping up with the RIAA lawsuits!

Vista on two PCs

lacla — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:09:37 GMT

Several months ago I caved in and plunked down $450 for a legitimate Vista Home Premium Standard Edition (that's the price we have to pay in Europe). I was planning to install it on my new media center and my new desktop PC. This was shortly after Vista was released. I didn't know anything about any activation and didn't bother to investigate it either (why would I). If I buy a movie it doesn't come with a clause that it can only be played on my DVD player in the living room.

Well here I am, a few activation hacks and a SP1 later and my desktop Vista install requires me to activate (after SP1 kindly "solved" the problem with hacked Vistas), which is not possible since it is already installed on my media center.

I'm becoming increasingly pissed with M$'s fucked up scheme to control how I use something that I bought, in my own home! There is no chance in hell that I'm buying another copy just to run media center on my dedicated HTPC!

So what are my options?

/lacla